Oct. 21, 2023

Starting a Podcast for Your Practice That Returns Real Value

Starting a Podcast for Your Practice That Returns Real Value

Hear how podcasting works as an extreme competitive advantage for an aesthetic practice and a content engine to create more impactful content and drive conversion.

Find out why podcasting, while currently an under-leveraged channel in aesthetics, is...

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Season 1

Hear how podcasting works as an extreme competitive advantage for an aesthetic practice and a content engine to create more impactful content and drive conversion.

Find out why podcasting, while currently an under-leveraged channel in aesthetics, is well-positioned to become an effective medium for patient education and even patient acquisition.

Originally presented on the Next Level Practices podcast with Max Baybak, Chief Strategy Officer of Influx Marketing.
https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/next-level-practices/id1504387322

About Patient Obsessed

Patient Obsessed is the aesthetic practice marketing podcast that explores what makes people choose one doctor or provider over another. In a word, the conversion, the magic moment.

If you're doing something innovative to improve or disrupt the patient experience, we want to hear from you! To inquire about being a guest on Patient Obsessed, send an email to hello@theaxis.io.

Hear more episodes, get resources, or send us a message
https://www.patientobsessedpodcast.com

If you're a doctor or an aesthetic professional and have ever thought about doing your own podcast, you can try podcasting for free on our Meet the Doctor podcast. Schedule your recording session at https://www.meetthedoctorpodcast.com/ and listen to Meet the Doctor on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or anywhere you listen to podcasts.


Patient Obsessed is a production of The Axis
https://www.theaxis.io/

WEBVTT

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This is Patient Obsessed, the aesthetic practice marketing podcast that

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explores what makes people choose one doctor over another, in

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a word, the conversion, the magic moment. I'm Eva Shay,

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your host and scrappy problem solver. For this first episode,

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I'm bringing you an interview that I recorded on the

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Next Level Practices podcast with Max Beyback, the Chief strategy

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officer of Influx Marketing. His insights and thoughtfulness are impossible

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to replicate. Thank you to Max and to Influx for

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letting me share this with you.

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All Right, Hello everyone, and welcome back to the podcast today.

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I'm very excited to be joined by someone who's a

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well known name throughout the world of plastic surgery, practice

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development and all things aesthetic marketing. She was previously the

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past director of Practice Development at Real Self, where she

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built out Real Self University, their customer education program and

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created the Real Self University podcast. Prior to that, she

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was the director of Product and online Strategy at Real

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Patient Ratings and has been a long time practice development

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consultant and veteran marketer and aesthetics. You probably already know

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who she is. Welcome to the show, Eva Shay, Thanks

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so much for joining us.

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Eva, Hey, Max, thank you for having me. This is

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my favorite topic is podcasting, So this is going to

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be good.

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We're going to podcast about podcasts.

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This is the.

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This is fully the meta podcast. So, so, as I

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mentioned you were, people may know your work through through

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Real Self University and the Real Self University podcast that

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you developed there, but you've now recently and this is

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why I thought it would be really exciting to have

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you on our show, because what we like to talk

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about here on the show is just to keep a

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lens on the world of esthetic marketing and what's happening there,

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what private practices can be doing to stay ahead of

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the curve and shifting with the trends in esthetic marketing

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and chatting with you a few weeks ago, you were

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telling me about what you were doing, and I thought

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this is perfect subject matter for our show called Next

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Level Practices about how you can take your aesthetic practice

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to the next level. And I was really excited to

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hear about what you were doing. And so you've gone

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out on your own and you've created I guess you've

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been consulting for a long time, you're still doing that,

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and now you're doing podcast production for primarily plastic surgeons.

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Is that right?

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That's right. So I sit sort of in the executive

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producer role. And what I discovered over the previous sort

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of year and a half at Real Self when I

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built the Real Self University podcast and then Tom series

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show called Hey Siri, which he's still doing and is

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still I think it's really interesting because he has such

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a great mind and he goes really deep with people

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on topics you would never expect. So I'm already saying,

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go listen to somebody else's show, but it's a good show.

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And I developed, well, you have started, it's got your

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fingerprints on it, right.

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And so what I found after maybe I don't know,

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ten or fifteen shows, was that the podcast was really

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unique at creating content I could use in other places.

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So where are you when you're in a role where

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you have to create content all the time? You have

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to think up what are we going to talk about?

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So what I started doing was saying what do I

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need to teach the audience and who knows the answer

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to this, and then going out and interviewing them and

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then using that content for lots of things other social

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media and presentations, relationship building. It had so many other

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uses besides, hey, listen to my podcast. So it was

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a process that developed over time, and I really think

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ultimately the value is what you create from the podcast

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more than it is the podcast itself.

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I absolutely love that. That actually helps me answer questions

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that I'm asking myself all the time because I've been

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in the last year or so for our agency and

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a few other select projects, kind of been dabbling in podcasts,

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have been fascinated with it forever. I know it's something

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that you really have to build that audience, but I've

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kind of and you have to stick at it for

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a long time and you can look at your numbers

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and kind of go, is this worth it? But I've

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found a little bit subconsciously, you put it into words

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better than I have, that there's so many offshoots of

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it that are valuable, and it is just valuable for

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content creation. There's something too also just being on the

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spot rather than having to premeditate everything and just kind

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of sitting down, like you said, with an expert on

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a topic and seeing what flows from and the amount

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of channels and places that you can distribute that content to.

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That's such a solid point. So you're saying you started

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with Real Self University with the goal of educating real clientele,

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the doctors, and then that's what you gave birth to

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the content. Yeah, tell me exactly.

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We were tasked with creating content to help practices from

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the beginning, and that started almost six years ago, and

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I was doing tons of webinars and experimenting with all

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these different formats and timing and channels and content, and

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we got pretty good at that. We got really good

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at webinars. We did a lot of webinars over the years,

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but creating the webinars was really hard and it took

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I always sort of gave feedback that these were too

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hard to put together, like there's too much work that

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goes into having a one hour or forty five minute

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webinar that two hundred people listened to. And I know

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a lot of people would be thrilled with two hundred

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people in their audience, but the lift that went into

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just that one hour event just started to feel like

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it was it could have been better. So Maureen, who

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was our chief customer officer at the time, she really

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championed this podcast idea and she said, I really want

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you to do it. And at the beginning It was

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very like my old coworker Scott would call it a

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skunk works project, like I'm off here in the corner,

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like doing this thing that we probably shouldn't tell anyone about.

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And it turned out it turned out pretty well, especially

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when Tom Siries started doing his too. Then they were

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able to help each other.

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You got something started, You got the ball room. I

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guess you inspired that in some senses with kicking off

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The Real Patient of the I'm sorry the Real Self

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University podcast first. Yeah, and you were kind of early.

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I mean, podcasting had been around, but still there's kind

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of a craze and a rush to it, and i'd

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say the last two years, and you are well ahead

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of all that.

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Yeah, the craze is a little bit funny because it's

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not really happening in our space yet it's happening all

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around us. But I think what happens to doctors is

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they think, oh, I want a podcast, and they start

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doing it, and then they realize how hard it is,

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and they might keep going for a little while, and

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then it kind of falls off and they go, oh,

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you know, I'm not seeing anything from this. Because the

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stuff that you need behind the scenes to measure whether

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it's working, and the structure around it from a marketing

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perspective that you need to make the most of what

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you're creating is not there either if you're trying to

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do this yourself. So I mean, if you are, by

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all means, it's great, And there's some really good ones

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out there that are DIY, Like Johnny Franco comes to mind.

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He's been killing it, but he was already doing other

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stuff and the podcast was an extension of what he

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was doing with social media. So for him it grew

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organically in that direction. Instead of from podcasts to social,

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he went from social to podcasts, so his social audience

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then followed him over there. And that's the trick to

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audience growth too, is you find your audience where they are.

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And almost everyone that we work with, certainly you, Max

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and the clients I've had over the years, they have

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audiences already, and this format is just coming along and

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kind of filling in a gap that's there. And the

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biggest gap that I've been feeling for quite some time

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now is the difference for the patient audience between ephemeral

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content and permanent content. So what I started noticing was,

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you guys are spending a lot of time making Instagram

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stories or Instagram posts. It's been Instagram for a long

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time and now it's TikTok, and this stuff is so

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fleeting for the audience. They see it one day, they

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might react to it, and the day it's gone. And

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you spend so much time and effort on it. And

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I am not saying that you shouldn't be doing that.

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It's still great content. What I'm saying is there has

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to be a balance between things that are permanent that

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deliver exponential results back to you and things that come

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and go and are in the moment. So your website

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is a great example of something that delivers consistent inbound

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leads and consistent activity that's exponential over time. You do

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the work theoretically once it never ends, like let's be real.

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But the podcast is sort of in that same category.

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You create an episode about something that can be listened

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to for years and years and years to come and

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have the same effect on someone today that it does

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in five years, as long as the techniques or the

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stuff you're talking about hasn't changed. Now you have a

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piece of marketing that's an asset to you instead of

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something that's going to vanish.

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I think that's everything you just said is so insightful.

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As a marketer, I'm obsessed with breaking down channels and

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looking at the different approaches and how you should weigh

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out your efforts and energy across them, and what kind

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of return you can expect from each and really understanding

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those and many people and you know, if they're not

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in marketing, I wouldn't expect them. Takes a lot of

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time to study and keep up with these, I wouldn't

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expect them to think that way. But you know, we

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talk with a lot of people that are interested in

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marketing whatever business they do. In our case, we focus

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on medical aesthetic practices, and they don't think that way.

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So it's really they don't often think that way. So

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it's really great to hear what you're saying and thinking

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about marketing in terms of efforts that you put across channels.

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It really is a science marketing and you have to

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think about You just have to think in that way.

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And I love that. To your point on the ephemeral content,

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Twitter finally now has their own stories. But you know

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what they're called. They're called fleets.

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Oh fleet, Oh good, One more thing, to do.

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Yeah, I've seen a few people on Twitter opting into it,

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but very very little adoption.

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I'm so grateful all the time that doctors don't use

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Twitter to market to patients. Not really, And I since

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the pandemic started, I've spent a lot more time on

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Twitter and understanding it better, and prior to that, I

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just was not on it at all. And I still

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don't think it's the right space for doctor patient communication

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because it's just it requires immediate attention all day long,

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and if you're not in the stream, then it's it

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just doesn't work.

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Yeah, I agree with you. Again, it's the kind of

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channel that you have to weigh out if you can

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really get the return there. And so that's why I

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tend to tell people to think about things in terms

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of a marketing ladder, where I've seen some people this

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is my analogy. Tell me if this works. I'm trying

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to perfect this. I see some people try to if

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every rung on the ladder is some sort of a

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some sort of marketing channel that you can sort of

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work on, and you should theoretically be doing each of

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these things, but you need to build it sequentially. If

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you try to do all of them at once, you

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get nowhere. So it's like put you kind of put

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the ladder sideways and try to do them all at once. Well,

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you're not going to go up. But if you just

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need you need to pick each rung in the ladder

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and build. So when we have people, I'm the same way.

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I'm very ambitious. So I'll say, you know what, we

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should be doing this, and we need to be getting

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a strategy going on this channel, and we need to

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be doing that. But I've learned from myself that I

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would fall down by trying to do those and I

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would back up and go. You have to build your foundation.

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So number one, if you don't have a solid website,

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and I don't just mean any website, really, I could

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make a whole we can do a whole other podcast

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on what I think you have to have before you

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can say your website is really where it needs to be,

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all the content it needs to have, the user experience

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it needs to have. Don't waste time on anything else

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until you have that. And like you said, it's an

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evergreen asset or yeah, property that's going to be able

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to constantly drive in leads and then up from there.

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And I was speaking to, or I actually wasn't speaking,

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but I was listening to a prominent plastic surgeon, female

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past surgeon with a large audience on Instagram, who gave

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a talk recently saying that even despite having half a

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million followers on Instagram, it's something like four to one

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what she's getting in off the website in Google versus

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her Instagram followers. So really evaluating that return on investment

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on each channel. And if you're going to create content,

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most people are interested in how much work it's going

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to be. Like you said, they start and they kind

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of give up. If you're going to create it, create

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invest where there's going to be sort of a perennial return,

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like you're talking about with these podcasts. So that's why

255
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I'm so fascinated with what you're doing, and like you said,

256
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other people aren't really doing it. I'm also fascinated with

257
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seeing what's happening in spaces around ours that we haven't

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we haven't really adopted yet and going, oh, how do

259
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we co opt that? So I love that that's what

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you're doing, and I want to hear more about kind of.

261
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Yeah, yeah, let's go back to everybody's not doing it.

262
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We actually went and found every plastic surgery related podcast

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in the world, and we made a spreadsheet wow, and

264
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we looked at where they were in the world, what

265
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the show was about, who was on it, all kinds

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of stuff, everything we could find, and whether it was

267
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active or inactive. And so when we got the whole

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list done, how many do you think we're on it?

269
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Max oh Man, I want to say under one hundred.

270
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I have seen a handful here and there, but yeah,

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I want to say under one hundred.

272
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We found thirty one podcasts and then yes, yeah, and

273
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that's all of them. I'm sure we missed some, but

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we were using Apple podcasts primarily, which is where most

275
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people listen, so you know, for our purposes, that was

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really the list was like thirty one. Then we went

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and eliminated anyone who hadn't recorded it since twenty nine nineteen,

278
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so more than a year, and we were down to twenty.

279
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That kind of thing is common.

280
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When you see you see very common.

281
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You can see the point of capitulation on podcasting like

282
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pretty crystically.

283
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Yeah, burnout is real. It is real. H The cool

284
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thing is the content's still there and it's still delivering value.

285
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It's not like it's not still valuable. If you didn't

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update your website for two years, what would Google do

287
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to it? It would probably make it go away. Yeah,

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so it still has an advantage even when it's older.

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But then we took out anybody who wasn't patient facing

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or in the United States, and do you know how

291
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many there are left. There's ten podcasts left in the

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whole world. And I didn't even get to audio quality

293
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content things like that. So what I was seeing was

294
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sort of this I hate this cliche, but this blue

295
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ocean phenomenon where nobody was using this channel correctly to

296
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talk to patient. And because of what I've been doing

297
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for the last like eleven years now around patient reviews,

298
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I was really hyper aware of the deficiencies with patient

299
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reviews and I want I really wanted to fill that

300
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gap with a podcast. So when people read reviews, there's

301
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a number of problems they have. One is there's not

302
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enough reviews. And when there's not enough reviews, they go, oh,

303
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that's nice, but you must not have that many patients.

304
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When they have a lot of reviews and they're fresh,

305
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that's the ideal scenario. When they have a lot of

306
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reviews and then they stopped at some point, sort of

307
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like podcasts stopping. Then they go, oh, something's wrong. There's

308
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so many things in reviews that cause problems, and I

309
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have spent a lot of time fixing those problems too,

310
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But really what I really wanted to do was both

311
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help doctors get to that place where people make decisions.

312
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And that's something that's super emotional for patients where they

313
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do that, and it comes from the doctor making them

314
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feel comfortable. And so this is why they use reviews.

315
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They want to feel comfortable enough to pick up the phone,

316
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or comfortable enough to pay the deposit, comfortable enough to

317
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move forward, even comfortable enough to let them use your

318
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photos or any number of things. They use reviews at

319
00:17:25.039 --> 00:17:28.599
every point of this journey and in every decision, But

320
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there was still something always kind of missing from that,

321
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and so you know, we were always kind of banging

322
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our heads against the wall, like how do we get

323
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people to convert? How do we get them to say

324
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I'm ready to move forward? Because we know so the

325
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doctor making them feel comfortable is the reason they convert.

326
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How do we bring that forward? Lots of people have

327
00:17:52.480 --> 00:17:56.440
tried to do stuff like this, so there's been I

328
00:17:56.440 --> 00:18:01.440
can think of one very well funded tool, you know,

329
00:18:01.559 --> 00:18:04.759
in recent years, not that recent, but within the last

330
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five or seven years, that tried to replace the consult

331
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with software. And the moment I saw it, I kind

332
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of laughed out loud and said, there's no way anyone's

333
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going to do this because you're trying to take away

334
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the moment that made the person feel comfortable, which is

335
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why they say yes. So just chasing this kind of

336
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for my whole career, like to get to the thing

337
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so that consults are easier for doctors, so that patients

338
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feel more comfortable when they get to the consule, so

339
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that decisions are made before the moment that they're sitting

340
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in front of the doctor, because if you stick yourself

341
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in that doctor's shoes. One of the things I've heard

342
00:18:43.359 --> 00:18:48.599
so many times, and as sort of an empathetic kind

343
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of process driven person, I want to solve the problem,

344
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which is I have to repeat myself over and over

345
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and over and over all day long. I'm so tired

346
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of and the doctors end up but saying the same

347
00:19:01.039 --> 00:19:04.920
things over and over every single day. And if you

348
00:19:05.039 --> 00:19:08.920
can take the load off them, they love you. And

349
00:19:09.000 --> 00:19:11.920
if you can help the patient feel more confident and

350
00:19:11.960 --> 00:19:15.440
more comfortable. They love the doctor, and everybody's happy, and

351
00:19:15.480 --> 00:19:19.079
the whole world is perfect and we can all go home. Right.

352
00:19:21.400 --> 00:19:27.680
Well, there's yeah, you've really identified a point of misalignment

353
00:19:27.720 --> 00:19:29.799
where there is, but it's maybe not that far off

354
00:19:29.799 --> 00:19:33.400
to connect those two things. I've heard both sides of

355
00:19:33.400 --> 00:19:36.640
that equation, but I haven't really ever thought of what

356
00:19:36.720 --> 00:19:39.279
you're doing now with podcasting as a conduit or a

357
00:19:39.279 --> 00:19:43.759
connecting point for that. You told me what you were doing,

358
00:19:43.759 --> 00:19:45.519
and then I heard an episode a few weeks later

359
00:19:45.519 --> 00:19:48.559
that you sent me, and you didn't even tell me this,

360
00:19:48.640 --> 00:19:50.759
but I think I emailed you back. I felt like

361
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I was in a consult with the doctor, and if

362
00:19:52.359 --> 00:19:55.559
I put myself in the patient shoes, I thought, Manny

363
00:19:55.599 --> 00:19:59.079
sounds really friendly, really approachable. I like this guy. If

364
00:19:59.119 --> 00:20:02.400
I was going to be considering a procedure, it's one

365
00:20:02.480 --> 00:20:05.400
step closer. It's not that if I then went in

366
00:20:05.559 --> 00:20:07.000
to do it, that I wouldn't have to go through

367
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the regular process and that some of those things wouldn't

368
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have to be repeated. But I definitely could put myself

369
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in the patient shoes because I'm also the same type

370
00:20:14.440 --> 00:20:17.400
of like you said, empathetic, process driven person that's trying

371
00:20:17.440 --> 00:20:20.920
to think through put yourself in different peoples shoes and

372
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think through the journey, and I could go and as

373
00:20:22.720 --> 00:20:24.759
a marketer, I think you have to be especially focused

374
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on patient acquisition, and so I put myself in the

375
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shoes of the patient and I could see how much

376
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friction this could reduce, both for patient and for doctors.

377
00:20:31.200 --> 00:20:33.720
So I actually really get what you're saying. And it

378
00:20:33.720 --> 00:20:35.400
doesn't feel like pie in the sky to me now

379
00:20:35.400 --> 00:20:40.160
that I've seen what you did, because I because.

380
00:20:39.960 --> 00:20:41.920
I got really good to get a show live and

381
00:20:41.960 --> 00:20:44.519
out the door. Like for several months there, I was like,

382
00:20:44.640 --> 00:20:47.160
I don't do anything because I don't have anything live.

383
00:20:48.440 --> 00:20:49.640
I know that feeling it was good.

384
00:20:49.680 --> 00:20:53.319
It was like having my third child. No, not quite

385
00:20:53.319 --> 00:20:55.960
that hard. It was easier than having a child.

386
00:20:56.359 --> 00:20:58.000
Getting a show off the ground or getting a new

387
00:20:58.000 --> 00:20:59.559
effort off the ground, getting a new company off the

388
00:20:59.599 --> 00:21:01.480
ground is like having a child. So I feel you.

389
00:21:01.519 --> 00:21:03.160
But here's the other thing that I think is so

390
00:21:03.200 --> 00:21:04.880
interesting about what you're doing. Like you said, there's only

391
00:21:04.880 --> 00:21:08.200
ten I'm fascinated with that because I do see those

392
00:21:08.839 --> 00:21:11.200
random here and there shows being done by past surgeoncy.

393
00:21:11.279 --> 00:21:13.400
I didn't really look at how consistently they're being done,

394
00:21:13.400 --> 00:21:15.240
but I do notice you can look at the YouTube

395
00:21:15.279 --> 00:21:17.440
views if they're posting it, there's not a ton of traction.

396
00:21:19.160 --> 00:21:20.920
You know, you can't always see what the views are

397
00:21:20.920 --> 00:21:22.640
on all the various podcast platforms, but you can get

398
00:21:22.640 --> 00:21:25.240
a sense of how much traction there is. And I

399
00:21:25.319 --> 00:21:29.000
don't think anyone's one hundred percent figured it out yet,

400
00:21:29.039 --> 00:21:31.440
And I think that's probably the code that has to

401
00:21:31.440 --> 00:21:34.200
be cracked. Certain technological things I think are going to

402
00:21:34.200 --> 00:21:38.839
come along and make that content more discoverable Google. You know,

403
00:21:39.119 --> 00:21:40.720
there's things which we can talk about that we see

404
00:21:40.720 --> 00:21:42.559
coming on the rise and for Google, and I think

405
00:21:42.599 --> 00:21:46.839
that content will be, like you said, evergreen and useful.

406
00:21:46.960 --> 00:21:48.839
But I think that there's something to be said about

407
00:21:48.880 --> 00:21:50.680
sort of kind of cracking the code of how to

408
00:21:50.720 --> 00:21:55.240
make this useful. Something that my director a word that

409
00:21:55.440 --> 00:21:58.960
my director of media, who we produce some podcasts and

410
00:21:59.000 --> 00:22:02.880
he does all the videography and editing that he used

411
00:22:03.200 --> 00:22:06.599
that I actually hadn't heard before was a dense audience.

412
00:22:06.759 --> 00:22:09.440
And I like that because we were producing a podcast

413
00:22:10.440 --> 00:22:14.640
where we weren't necessarily getting tons of views, but the

414
00:22:14.680 --> 00:22:18.519
feedback and the root and the outcomes from it, and

415
00:22:18.559 --> 00:22:22.000
like you said, the content were well worth it. The

416
00:22:22.039 --> 00:22:25.279
payback was completely there. So there are times when when

417
00:22:25.319 --> 00:22:26.920
you don't need, you don't want to actually measure it

418
00:22:26.920 --> 00:22:28.880
by the same traditional metrics that you might measure are

419
00:22:28.920 --> 00:22:35.960
the marketing efforts, reach, distribution, impressions, even views or or listens.

420
00:22:35.759 --> 00:22:38.480
It all matters. What's what we really mean by dense

421
00:22:38.519 --> 00:22:41.880
audience is small but high value. It's heavy, right and

422
00:22:42.000 --> 00:22:45.200
it and it has and and it's the value of

423
00:22:45.240 --> 00:22:48.160
just a few listens can be really impactful. Is that

424
00:22:48.160 --> 00:22:49.640
something that you're thinking about and what you're doing?

425
00:22:49.720 --> 00:22:52.559
It is and it when I talk about reporting and

426
00:22:52.599 --> 00:22:54.880
when I start working with a doctor and building a show,

427
00:22:56.240 --> 00:22:58.480
I go out of my way to point out that

428
00:22:58.640 --> 00:23:01.440
the number one metric is people will come in and

429
00:23:01.480 --> 00:23:05.279
tell you they listen to it, and that podcasts are

430
00:23:05.319 --> 00:23:08.440
really sort of like they're not new. They use super

431
00:23:08.440 --> 00:23:13.799
old technology, which means there are lots of advantages. You know,

432
00:23:13.839 --> 00:23:17.279
they use RSS feed technology, so they're super portable. They

433
00:23:17.279 --> 00:23:19.599
can be pulled into all kinds of different formats, and

434
00:23:20.079 --> 00:23:21.960
they're really lightweight and you can do all kinds of

435
00:23:22.000 --> 00:23:26.160
stuff with the RSS feed, but you can't get a

436
00:23:26.200 --> 00:23:31.480
lot of metrics, so and if you're in every platform,

437
00:23:31.960 --> 00:23:34.400
you would have to get metrics from every platform and

438
00:23:34.440 --> 00:23:36.480
figure out how to roll those all up, and then

439
00:23:36.519 --> 00:23:40.119
you'd spend way more time trying to analyze your numbers

440
00:23:40.119 --> 00:23:43.839
than you would ever producing a show. So there just

441
00:23:43.960 --> 00:23:47.559
isn't anything really besides downloads and people telling you that

442
00:23:47.599 --> 00:23:51.839
they heard it. And I find it really refreshing because

443
00:23:52.000 --> 00:23:54.160
it keeps us focused on the right stuff and not

444
00:23:55.559 --> 00:23:59.519
content for content's sake. You know, if my KPI is

445
00:24:00.119 --> 00:24:01.960
have to get someone to say they listen to this

446
00:24:02.119 --> 00:24:04.279
and go in and tell the doctor they listen to it,

447
00:24:04.960 --> 00:24:07.599
that's pretty straightforward, right.

448
00:24:07.839 --> 00:24:09.960
Yeah, there's a lot of content for content safety, there's

449
00:24:09.960 --> 00:24:12.680
a lot of noise signal verse, noise not happening, but

450
00:24:13.400 --> 00:24:20.039
what so on that if I'm a doctor surgeon today,

451
00:24:20.279 --> 00:24:22.440
there's a lot of people who have flocked into podcasting,

452
00:24:22.720 --> 00:24:24.319
Like you said, maybe not so much in this space.

453
00:24:25.079 --> 00:24:27.000
So you know you've already I was going to ask

454
00:24:27.039 --> 00:24:28.519
you this question of is it kind of too late

455
00:24:28.559 --> 00:24:30.559
to get in or should is it overcrowded? But you've

456
00:24:30.599 --> 00:24:34.000
already illustrated with that uh study, you did that kind

457
00:24:34.000 --> 00:24:37.759
of informal study that it's not oversaturated. But but what

458
00:24:37.880 --> 00:24:41.400
is the benefit. Why should I start? When? What can

459
00:24:41.480 --> 00:24:42.119
I get out of it?

460
00:24:44.079 --> 00:24:47.480
Well, let's see why should you? Well, I I talked

461
00:24:47.480 --> 00:24:51.119
about the counterbalance to the ephemeral thing, and that's really

462
00:24:51.119 --> 00:24:53.200
one of the biggest ones is long term, you're building

463
00:24:53.240 --> 00:24:55.720
something that will continue to deliver value back to you,

464
00:24:56.319 --> 00:24:59.279
so it has the right ROI is another way to

465
00:24:59.279 --> 00:25:03.720
put that. It gets you off the hamster wheel instead

466
00:25:03.720 --> 00:25:07.640
of putting you on another hamster wheel. So social media,

467
00:25:08.359 --> 00:25:10.559
anything where you have to come back and repeat a

468
00:25:10.599 --> 00:25:13.279
behavior over and over and over. That's the stuff I'm

469
00:25:13.279 --> 00:25:18.240
trying to get doctors away from or balanced to, because

470
00:25:18.440 --> 00:25:24.559
otherwise you're just investing time and money in marketing that

471
00:25:24.720 --> 00:25:28.119
never has the right kind of return. So one way

472
00:25:28.119 --> 00:25:30.200
that I've thought about it over the years, and I

473
00:25:30.200 --> 00:25:31.920
if I'm sitting with a doctor, I like to draw

474
00:25:31.960 --> 00:25:34.960
this kind of on a piece of paper, is earlier

475
00:25:34.960 --> 00:25:39.000
in your career, you spend this much on marketing, and

476
00:25:39.039 --> 00:25:41.799
what you want to see over time is that you

477
00:25:41.880 --> 00:25:44.640
spend less and less. And there might be points where

478
00:25:44.960 --> 00:25:48.240
you spend more or spend less based on what's happening

479
00:25:48.319 --> 00:25:51.759
environmentally around you. But I don't think it's anybody's goal

480
00:25:51.839 --> 00:25:54.359
to spend ten percent of revenue on marketing for their

481
00:25:54.359 --> 00:25:55.039
whole career.

482
00:25:56.160 --> 00:25:58.240
So, yeah, you want to tap that down over time.

483
00:25:58.359 --> 00:25:58.519
I do.

484
00:25:59.079 --> 00:26:01.839
That didn't come from this is something I've observed over

485
00:26:01.839 --> 00:26:05.440
the years that early career doctors understand that they're going

486
00:26:05.519 --> 00:26:08.200
to have to spend on stuff. People understand they're going

487
00:26:08.240 --> 00:26:11.079
to have to build a new website every how many

488
00:26:11.119 --> 00:26:14.839
years do you have? It changes so much it's like fire.

489
00:26:15.279 --> 00:26:17.920
But I would say four or five, and now you're

490
00:26:17.960 --> 00:26:18.319
pushing it.

491
00:26:18.400 --> 00:26:21.720
Yeah, and that so that comes along. You have to

492
00:26:21.799 --> 00:26:25.519
keep up with that. But no one wants to spend

493
00:26:25.599 --> 00:26:30.039
fifteen thousand a month on Google Ads forever. And also,

494
00:26:30.279 --> 00:26:32.799
if we've been paying for Google Ads, you know that

495
00:26:32.839 --> 00:26:34.960
it keeps going up and up and up and up

496
00:26:35.160 --> 00:26:37.400
and up, and they're going to keep making it harder

497
00:26:37.440 --> 00:26:40.799
and harder and try to convince you that you can't

498
00:26:40.880 --> 00:26:43.359
live without these things. And I am sort of putting

499
00:26:43.400 --> 00:26:46.440
my foot down and saying, yeah, we can live without

500
00:26:46.480 --> 00:26:52.599
these things. If we're smarter than Google, at least on

501
00:26:52.680 --> 00:26:54.920
that front. I don't know if we can catch them

502
00:26:54.960 --> 00:26:59.440
on everything but I just it's sort of like the

503
00:26:59.480 --> 00:27:01.359
stubborn part of me that says, I'm not going to

504
00:27:01.480 --> 00:27:04.799
let you get me. And I think a lot of

505
00:27:04.839 --> 00:27:06.039
doctors think like that too.

506
00:27:06.119 --> 00:27:11.039
So for sure, speaking of frameworks that I tend to

507
00:27:11.119 --> 00:27:13.839
use in marketing, I brought up that ladder kind of concept,

508
00:27:13.839 --> 00:27:16.319
and if you listen to content that I'm putting on,

509
00:27:16.559 --> 00:27:18.039
I kind of repeat a lot of these same things,

510
00:27:18.039 --> 00:27:19.920
because there are frameworks just the ways I like to

511
00:27:19.960 --> 00:27:22.079
approach it, and I like to look at marketing as investment.

512
00:27:22.400 --> 00:27:25.880
And you have short term so you have certain capital

513
00:27:25.920 --> 00:27:27.599
that you need to get back quick, you can't tie

514
00:27:27.599 --> 00:27:28.880
it up for a long time, and you invest it

515
00:27:28.880 --> 00:27:30.440
into things that have a short term return, but they

516
00:27:30.440 --> 00:27:32.000
also have a little bit of a hand of mouth.

517
00:27:32.079 --> 00:27:35.200
If you stop doing them, you're kind of you know,

518
00:27:35.880 --> 00:27:38.359
it stops. It is in a different sense. It's its

519
00:27:38.359 --> 00:27:40.240
own hamster wheel. And then you have long term things

520
00:27:40.240 --> 00:27:42.160
you invest in that have really high upside. And so

521
00:27:42.200 --> 00:27:45.279
there's things like creating content that can exist out there

522
00:27:45.680 --> 00:27:50.400
on the web forever, like SEO is one of them.

523
00:27:50.599 --> 00:27:52.079
It takes a long it can take a long time,

524
00:27:52.119 --> 00:27:55.279
but if you're doing it right, that can really pay off. Granted,

525
00:27:55.720 --> 00:27:58.480
you still need to diversify away from it. Another investing

526
00:27:58.519 --> 00:28:00.640
concept diversification, because you don't want to have all your

527
00:28:00.640 --> 00:28:03.279
eggs in the SEO basket. But we tend to try

528
00:28:03.319 --> 00:28:07.039
to help people taper down on dependency. Doesn't mean they

529
00:28:07.039 --> 00:28:10.119
can't do ads, but taper down dependency upon ads and

530
00:28:10.119 --> 00:28:13.559
and have other sources. SEO is a primary one, but

531
00:28:13.559 --> 00:28:15.920
you can diversify it with other content that you're creating

532
00:28:17.400 --> 00:28:20.480
and speaking of seeing what other industries are doing and

533
00:28:20.519 --> 00:28:23.200
emulating that. What a lot of other industries are doing

534
00:28:23.279 --> 00:28:27.559
is they're creating content. They're creating brand loyalty and audience

535
00:28:27.559 --> 00:28:30.559
loyalty out of content that is actually of value, and

536
00:28:30.599 --> 00:28:35.000
they can retain a great propore with that audience and

537
00:28:35.079 --> 00:28:39.400
draw on that very often content marketing. I stole this,

538
00:28:39.480 --> 00:28:41.839
but I love this. Someone said you have to think

539
00:28:41.839 --> 00:28:44.599
of it like a bank account. You have to put it,

540
00:28:44.640 --> 00:28:46.880
make a deposit into your account before you can make

541
00:28:46.920 --> 00:28:49.160
a withdrawal. So what you're doing is you're depositing value

542
00:28:49.160 --> 00:28:51.759
into that audience, and then you can make withdrawals in

543
00:28:51.759 --> 00:28:54.599
the future and say great, now they'll think of you

544
00:28:54.759 --> 00:28:56.440
when they're ready to do a procedure or whatever it is,

545
00:28:57.200 --> 00:28:59.759
and public relations is another way. There are many ways

546
00:28:59.799 --> 00:29:05.160
you can diversify off of dependencies on short term advertising

547
00:29:05.200 --> 00:29:09.960
and marketing strategies. So I completely see this as a

548
00:29:10.160 --> 00:29:13.640
longer term strategy where you're building up, you're building up

549
00:29:13.640 --> 00:29:16.759
content that you could get one patient in and it

550
00:29:16.799 --> 00:29:19.680
would pay back. Would you say you just do one

551
00:29:19.680 --> 00:29:22.240
episode the episode that What I liked about the angle

552
00:29:22.279 --> 00:29:23.799
you did on the episode you sent me was that

553
00:29:23.839 --> 00:29:26.920
it was on a very kind of niche procedure, so

554
00:29:26.960 --> 00:29:31.440
it definitely helped to frame that surgeon as someone that

555
00:29:31.480 --> 00:29:33.319
could help them with something that other surgeons may not

556
00:29:33.400 --> 00:29:37.640
always be comfortable doing. And so I definitely see it

557
00:29:37.680 --> 00:29:40.640
as a discovery tool. I didn't really see that completely before,

558
00:29:40.640 --> 00:29:42.119
but I see it as a way that that doctor

559
00:29:42.119 --> 00:29:44.160
could actually be found by people looking for someone who

560
00:29:44.160 --> 00:29:46.359
does that, and if you got one person in, it

561
00:29:46.359 --> 00:29:52.160
would pay back, I don't know, probably fifty times. I

562
00:29:52.160 --> 00:29:54.160
don't know. You could do the math right, just the

563
00:29:54.160 --> 00:29:56.960
one patient and then everything after that for years to

564
00:29:56.960 --> 00:30:01.039
come is gravy. So the ROI it could definitely be there,

565
00:30:01.039 --> 00:30:03.000
and you might it might you might look at the

566
00:30:03.039 --> 00:30:05.119
listens or the views and go, that's not much, but

567
00:30:05.200 --> 00:30:06.119
that's not really.

568
00:30:05.920 --> 00:30:09.519
It doesn't matter, right, it just doesn't matter. And then

569
00:30:09.759 --> 00:30:13.440
so another angle where this saves him a lot of

570
00:30:13.440 --> 00:30:16.599
money is he's got a full time in house marketing person,

571
00:30:17.400 --> 00:30:19.799
but to hire a full time in house marketing person

572
00:30:19.799 --> 00:30:24.319
who knows procedures and who knows what's allowed what's not allowed,

573
00:30:25.720 --> 00:30:29.200
because hiring full time marketing person for most surgeons is

574
00:30:30.880 --> 00:30:34.519
like a junior level type of person, So you have

575
00:30:34.559 --> 00:30:37.319
to have resources for them to be able to do

576
00:30:37.359 --> 00:30:42.799
their jobs accurately. And what we've found is that with

577
00:30:43.240 --> 00:30:46.400
him recording these episodes, now she's got it both from

578
00:30:46.440 --> 00:30:48.680
the transcript and writing, and she can refer to that,

579
00:30:49.200 --> 00:30:53.640
but she can just go say, she can pull She's

580
00:30:53.720 --> 00:30:55.759
got more content than she will ever know what to

581
00:30:55.799 --> 00:30:59.039
do with for that topic now instead of having to

582
00:30:59.039 --> 00:31:01.759
go ask him for it. So it also makes her

583
00:31:01.839 --> 00:31:07.640
job easier. And then I'm starting to see, I'm starting

584
00:31:07.680 --> 00:31:11.039
to see that they're going to be able to use

585
00:31:11.119 --> 00:31:14.640
the podcasts when they send emails. The coordinator send emails

586
00:31:14.640 --> 00:31:19.559
to Perspective patients, they can say doctor just recorded an

587
00:31:19.559 --> 00:31:22.000
episode about the topic that you're interested in, if you

588
00:31:22.039 --> 00:31:24.759
want to check it out, and use it as a

589
00:31:24.799 --> 00:31:29.359
resource in that direction too. There's so many poles.

590
00:31:30.000 --> 00:31:33.960
I love that concept, so many places to plug it in. Again,

591
00:31:34.039 --> 00:31:36.000
that's where I hadn't thought of using it in that way,

592
00:31:36.039 --> 00:31:38.720
And I think after I listened to it, I thought, oh, yeah,

593
00:31:38.720 --> 00:31:40.599
you could send this to them as a first touch

594
00:31:40.599 --> 00:31:43.039
point they're considering coming in for a consult. You said,

595
00:31:43.079 --> 00:31:46.880
just listen to this right now. So again, and there's

596
00:31:46.960 --> 00:31:48.759
a number of things in marketing that work this way,

597
00:31:48.799 --> 00:31:50.559
Like your website might not be the first touch point.

598
00:31:50.559 --> 00:31:52.000
They might find you on social, but then they come

599
00:31:52.000 --> 00:31:53.839
there and that website needs to represent you so that

600
00:31:53.880 --> 00:31:57.839
they whatever confidence they got or interest was peaked from

601
00:31:57.880 --> 00:32:00.680
social and they jump over there and it's continued. It's consistent.

602
00:32:01.000 --> 00:32:02.599
So it's amazing how you can pot them.

603
00:32:02.720 --> 00:32:06.039
Like what are those dolls called where one fits inside

604
00:32:06.079 --> 00:32:06.359
the other?

605
00:32:06.519 --> 00:32:07.839
The Russian Russian nesting dolls.

606
00:32:07.920 --> 00:32:10.680
Russian dolls. Okay, so the podcast is the rush is

607
00:32:10.720 --> 00:32:14.640
the tiniest doll, and then if the podcast is on YouTube,

608
00:32:14.720 --> 00:32:17.079
there's the second doll. And if the YouTube video is

609
00:32:17.119 --> 00:32:20.240
embedded in the website, there's the third doll. And then

610
00:32:20.319 --> 00:32:22.440
that link is sent out in the email, there's the

611
00:32:22.480 --> 00:32:25.759
fourth doll. So the whole thing goes all the way

612
00:32:25.799 --> 00:32:28.000
down to the one thing that you created, but it

613
00:32:28.079 --> 00:32:32.200
has solved all these problems all the way downstream, and

614
00:32:32.240 --> 00:32:34.759
I just sometimes can't believe I didn't think of it sooner.

615
00:32:36.000 --> 00:32:39.079
Well, I love it. It's really cool when there's something that's

616
00:32:39.119 --> 00:32:41.880
already there. You're not really changing the basic format, but

617
00:32:41.920 --> 00:32:44.640
there's just a little a little bit of a different

618
00:32:44.680 --> 00:32:47.079
outlook on how to utilize it. That is the tweak,

619
00:32:47.119 --> 00:32:50.279
that is the aha moment. So it's all in the subtleties.

620
00:32:50.279 --> 00:32:52.359
And I think that's the case for digital today. We're

621
00:32:52.359 --> 00:32:55.000
not going to have some new breakthrough that's like the Internet.

622
00:32:55.039 --> 00:32:57.319
I mean, in years to come, there's going to be

623
00:32:57.359 --> 00:32:59.319
some interesting things coming, but for the most part, it's

624
00:32:59.440 --> 00:33:02.119
now just getting down to the minutia of just tweaking

625
00:33:02.200 --> 00:33:05.079
how you do it that unlocks whole new worlds of opportunity,

626
00:33:05.119 --> 00:33:08.960
I think. So, I think it's all about that very

627
00:33:09.000 --> 00:33:11.640
detailed aspects of how you're considering this approach that I

628
00:33:11.680 --> 00:33:14.559
find fascinating. But let me ask you something you said,

629
00:33:14.599 --> 00:33:17.000
you're it's something that you don't have to plug the

630
00:33:17.039 --> 00:33:19.640
doctor into a hamster will It's really interesting how social

631
00:33:19.680 --> 00:33:23.720
media is almost entrapping because as soon as you start,

632
00:33:23.720 --> 00:33:26.160
if you don't keep going, it's now bad. Now now

633
00:33:26.240 --> 00:33:30.880
you you've now it looks bad to not be pretty

634
00:33:31.000 --> 00:33:33.839
a contact, people wonder what happened, et cetera. Same could

635
00:33:33.880 --> 00:33:35.839
be true a little bit for podcasting. Like we talked about,

636
00:33:35.880 --> 00:33:38.079
you see the moment of capitulation. But if you keep

637
00:33:38.119 --> 00:33:40.480
any level of consistency, even if it's once a month

638
00:33:40.680 --> 00:33:43.680
you put out something, people see that you're still doing it.

639
00:33:43.720 --> 00:33:46.160
There's no necessity to say it has to be at

640
00:33:46.160 --> 00:33:48.200
any particular cadence as long as there's I just think

641
00:33:48.240 --> 00:33:50.519
some consistency. So how do you do it so that

642
00:33:50.559 --> 00:33:54.160
they aren't all of a sudden in you know, a

643
00:33:54.240 --> 00:33:56.200
huge demand for their time, and what what workload do

644
00:33:56.240 --> 00:33:59.000
you take off their plate too to help them? Because

645
00:33:59.039 --> 00:34:01.359
social media you can try to outsource it. There's only

646
00:34:01.440 --> 00:34:03.640
so much workload that they can actually out source, and

647
00:34:03.920 --> 00:34:06.440
a lot of doctors learn that when they try to outsource.

648
00:34:06.440 --> 00:34:09.920
I've noticed that's right, that's been happening for a long time.

649
00:34:11.199 --> 00:34:16.599
I have handled everything down to the questions, and I've

650
00:34:17.360 --> 00:34:19.519
tried to simplify the process to the point where all

651
00:34:19.559 --> 00:34:23.440
they have to do is sit down and talk. And

652
00:34:23.480 --> 00:34:26.519
so some of that means there's more work to do

653
00:34:26.559 --> 00:34:28.519
at the beginning to get to the point where you

654
00:34:28.559 --> 00:34:31.440
can just sit down and talk. But I've hammered all

655
00:34:31.440 --> 00:34:34.360
of that out. I send all the equipment ahead of time,

656
00:34:34.679 --> 00:34:37.079
I test the equipment with a staff member so they

657
00:34:37.079 --> 00:34:40.199
don't have to do that, and just really get it

658
00:34:40.199 --> 00:34:42.079
to the point where they just walk into their office

659
00:34:42.119 --> 00:34:43.880
and they just sit down like you and I are

660
00:34:43.960 --> 00:34:47.719
right now and look at each other. The format of

661
00:34:47.880 --> 00:34:52.159
the show throws I'm not going to say it throws

662
00:34:52.159 --> 00:34:56.559
a wrench into it, but it affects how much you know.

663
00:34:56.599 --> 00:35:00.000
Every time you add a layer, it gets more complicated.

664
00:35:00.280 --> 00:35:03.639
So the show we've been talking about with the doctor

665
00:35:03.679 --> 00:35:07.639
that I recently launched is just him, and I'm actually

666
00:35:07.679 --> 00:35:11.199
asking him questions, and then in editing, I remove myself

667
00:35:11.239 --> 00:35:16.320
so it sounds like he's just talking. So that that's

668
00:35:16.320 --> 00:35:19.400
worked really well because I can make sure we got

669
00:35:19.440 --> 00:35:23.199
everything we need and he doesn't have to worry about

670
00:35:23.960 --> 00:35:28.199
editing or approval or any of that. So what I

671
00:35:28.239 --> 00:35:30.840
send back to him is maybe usually the episodes have

672
00:35:30.880 --> 00:35:33.239
been fifteen to eighteen minutes long, and he listens in

673
00:35:33.280 --> 00:35:34.800
the car and then he says you're good to go.

674
00:35:35.119 --> 00:35:37.280
Now, that makes a lot of sense, you know, for

675
00:35:37.320 --> 00:35:38.840
you to be able to because I know pre production

676
00:35:39.199 --> 00:35:42.079
is kind of everything. Even if you're going to do

677
00:35:42.119 --> 00:35:44.480
it very casual like we're doing now there you just

678
00:35:44.519 --> 00:35:46.199
there's a lot of prep work that goes into it

679
00:35:46.280 --> 00:35:48.679
so that the host or the doc can just kind

680
00:35:48.679 --> 00:35:51.199
of come sit down and I listen to that episode

681
00:35:51.480 --> 00:35:53.920
and that you're mentioned, and I found that it worked

682
00:35:53.920 --> 00:35:56.000
pretty well. It almost reminded me of some of those

683
00:35:56.000 --> 00:35:59.519
sports AM sports radio shows where the host is just

684
00:35:59.599 --> 00:36:03.119
one guy or one person and they often don't have

685
00:36:03.119 --> 00:36:06.719
a guest and they're just monologuing almost and it works.

686
00:36:07.280 --> 00:36:10.039
It works really well. I mean, it's not a format

687
00:36:10.039 --> 00:36:12.400
that you think about with podcasting so much, but I

688
00:36:12.400 --> 00:36:14.920
know a few podcasts I do it and that works

689
00:36:14.960 --> 00:36:17.360
really well. And I could tell well because I know

690
00:36:17.480 --> 00:36:19.039
you and I know kind of what you're doing, that

691
00:36:19.079 --> 00:36:21.360
you t do all up to make it really simple.

692
00:36:22.239 --> 00:36:24.320
I think the end product came out really refined and

693
00:36:24.400 --> 00:36:26.039
it seems simple, but I know a lot of work

694
00:36:26.039 --> 00:36:28.480
goes into that. Okay, so you're there in Austin and

695
00:36:28.760 --> 00:36:32.079
anyone who's listening, who might be thinking about, you know,

696
00:36:32.360 --> 00:36:34.199
or if anyone wants to work with you and do

697
00:36:34.239 --> 00:36:36.440
a podcast and they're not in Austin, how does that

698
00:36:36.480 --> 00:36:38.599
work kind of and do you have them purchase equipment

699
00:36:38.719 --> 00:36:40.840
or how do you walk.

700
00:36:40.440 --> 00:36:42.960
Us through that. One of the funny like sort of

701
00:36:43.400 --> 00:36:46.599
oh crap moments and the when COVID hit was I

702
00:36:46.639 --> 00:36:48.920
had to figure out how to record all my podcasts

703
00:36:48.960 --> 00:36:53.320
without you know, I had sort of the I do

704
00:36:53.400 --> 00:36:56.719
this mostly in person system, So I'd recorded at asps

705
00:36:56.840 --> 00:37:00.960
and aaf prs and I had started record darting some

706
00:37:01.119 --> 00:37:03.239
episodes online. But I had to figure out how am

707
00:37:03.280 --> 00:37:06.239
I going to do this now? Just sort of like

708
00:37:06.280 --> 00:37:08.760
everybody had to figure out how to do virtual consults.

709
00:37:08.800 --> 00:37:13.440
And at the same time, right around then, Zoom added

710
00:37:13.519 --> 00:37:17.079
multi track recording to Zoom. So for the most part,

711
00:37:17.119 --> 00:37:19.079
I just use Zoom, and you know, you and I

712
00:37:19.159 --> 00:37:22.280
are using Zencaster today. This is another system I like

713
00:37:22.400 --> 00:37:27.039
because it doesn't rely on the Internet to get the recording.

714
00:37:27.559 --> 00:37:30.360
So most of the time I do that. But what

715
00:37:30.440 --> 00:37:33.199
I've been what I figured out was to get a

716
00:37:33.239 --> 00:37:38.440
staff member who's helpful to really help me get everything

717
00:37:38.519 --> 00:37:40.880
set before the doctor sits down to minimize their time,

718
00:37:40.880 --> 00:37:44.000
and then we batch record so I'll be ready to

719
00:37:44.360 --> 00:37:51.440
do three four episodes all at once. And that's enabled

720
00:37:51.519 --> 00:37:53.760
us to move really fast and get a whole bunch

721
00:37:53.760 --> 00:37:56.880
of episodes in the bank. So like right now with

722
00:37:57.280 --> 00:37:59.159
one of my shows, we don't have to record again

723
00:37:59.199 --> 00:38:01.719
until June. We don't want to come back to it.

724
00:38:02.400 --> 00:38:03.039
So that's awesome.

725
00:38:03.079 --> 00:38:05.199
That block recording has made all the difference.

726
00:38:06.119 --> 00:38:08.280
Yeah, we've done something similar on some of them.

727
00:38:08.320 --> 00:38:11.960
So the gear itself, just in case anybody's wondering, it's

728
00:38:12.000 --> 00:38:15.119
not that expensive and the you know, so it's like

729
00:38:15.119 --> 00:38:17.440
a one hundred dollars microphone and a fifty dollars pair of

730
00:38:17.519 --> 00:38:22.039
headphones plugged into your computer and a mic stand is

731
00:38:22.559 --> 00:38:25.400
all you need. And my secret weapon is my audio

732
00:38:25.440 --> 00:38:29.519
engineer who has been able to just make everyone sound

733
00:38:29.639 --> 00:38:33.079
like even in tough conditions without microphones, he makes them

734
00:38:33.119 --> 00:38:35.119
sound great. And I'm not going to tell you his name,

735
00:38:35.199 --> 00:38:35.840
so don't ask.

736
00:38:38.239 --> 00:38:40.079
You're right, you can start around two hundred bucks if

737
00:38:40.079 --> 00:38:41.440
you have a USB mic and you're not going to

738
00:38:41.519 --> 00:38:44.400
go through an audio interface. And I always tell people,

739
00:38:44.440 --> 00:38:45.960
you know, you can start around two three hundred bucks,

740
00:38:45.960 --> 00:38:47.840
depending on which kind of mount or arm and thing

741
00:38:47.880 --> 00:38:49.719
you get, and then you can maybe at the very

742
00:38:49.760 --> 00:38:51.159
high end, if you wanted to have like a four

743
00:38:51.199 --> 00:38:53.280
person podcast studio and everything and all the best, you

744
00:38:53.320 --> 00:38:56.039
could spend twenty five hundred dollars and you'd be really well.

745
00:38:56.079 --> 00:38:58.920
You could. But the other thing I discovered, which was

746
00:38:58.960 --> 00:39:01.719
a really happy thing, was there's a ton of these

747
00:39:01.719 --> 00:39:05.360
studios now where you just show up and the engineers

748
00:39:05.400 --> 00:39:08.079
there for you, and if you have two, three, four

749
00:39:08.159 --> 00:39:10.199
or five people, you just sit down and let them

750
00:39:10.199 --> 00:39:13.280
do it for much lower cost than it would ever

751
00:39:13.320 --> 00:39:15.280
be to do it yourself, to buy all the stuff

752
00:39:15.280 --> 00:39:18.079
and do it yourself. So Johnny Franco is actually building

753
00:39:18.079 --> 00:39:22.360
a studio here in Austin that he's promised I can

754
00:39:22.840 --> 00:39:23.920
borrow if I need it.

755
00:39:24.639 --> 00:39:25.119
Oh cool.

756
00:39:25.840 --> 00:39:28.360
You know. The scrappy way is just to have everyone

757
00:39:28.400 --> 00:39:30.719
in a different room. You don't need everybody to have

758
00:39:30.800 --> 00:39:32.639
three people or four people on. You just have to

759
00:39:32.679 --> 00:39:34.440
make sure they're all not in the same place.

760
00:39:35.199 --> 00:39:38.199
Yeah, well, exactly, they need to not be. The pandemic

761
00:39:38.519 --> 00:39:40.800
has really shown us that prior to the pandemic, I

762
00:39:40.920 --> 00:39:43.400
was really dabbling whether I was entertaining whether or not

763
00:39:43.559 --> 00:39:48.360
influx would get really into podcast production, and ultimately we've concluded,

764
00:39:48.480 --> 00:39:50.679
you know, we have a couple of things that are

765
00:39:50.679 --> 00:39:52.360
really a labor of love for me where I work

766
00:39:52.400 --> 00:39:55.760
on you know, we produce the Technology Beauty Doctor Grant

767
00:39:55.760 --> 00:39:56.519
Stephen's show, and.

768
00:39:56.480 --> 00:39:57.320
That's a great show.

769
00:39:57.400 --> 00:40:00.519
Really, Yeah, I love it and it's really me overseeing

770
00:40:00.559 --> 00:40:03.679
the production on that, and it's it's it's kind of

771
00:40:03.679 --> 00:40:07.559
my hobby horse. And we've assisted on a few things

772
00:40:07.599 --> 00:40:09.079
here and there. And I have this show that I

773
00:40:09.119 --> 00:40:11.400
do because I because, like you said, at the outset

774
00:40:11.440 --> 00:40:12.719
of this, I found that it's a great way to

775
00:40:12.760 --> 00:40:16.000
create content. It spawns so many other things. But I

776
00:40:16.000 --> 00:40:17.599
thought I looked at really rolling it out as a

777
00:40:17.599 --> 00:40:19.559
service and I didn't solve the problem the way that

778
00:40:19.599 --> 00:40:21.440
you did. And this is prior to the pandemic, I

779
00:40:21.480 --> 00:40:24.840
was building a podcast studio in our office in Pasadena

780
00:40:25.000 --> 00:40:27.840
in the LA area, and I was getting that all going,

781
00:40:27.840 --> 00:40:31.719
and pandemic came kind of changed, well, very much changed everything,

782
00:40:32.280 --> 00:40:35.320
and by that time I'd already kind of decided we're

783
00:40:35.320 --> 00:40:37.880
going to just keep focusing on on what we do,

784
00:40:38.000 --> 00:40:42.719
which is websites lead generation patient acquisition, and I think

785
00:40:42.719 --> 00:40:45.480
it's great I really believe in specialization, so I think

786
00:40:45.519 --> 00:40:48.000
it's great for people like yourself starting something that's really

787
00:40:48.000 --> 00:40:50.840
specialized and just partnering with the right specialists. So we

788
00:40:50.880 --> 00:40:54.320
aren't rolling that out as a service broadly, but you know,

789
00:40:54.719 --> 00:40:56.880
we almost could now, whereas before I didn't even really

790
00:40:56.920 --> 00:41:01.000
see exactly how we could do it. And I can't

791
00:41:01.039 --> 00:41:03.880
believe how much in the last just like eight months

792
00:41:04.000 --> 00:41:06.920
technology as not only is the technology getting cheaper, like

793
00:41:07.039 --> 00:41:10.000
you brought up the equipment, but the technologies like this

794
00:41:10.079 --> 00:41:12.800
platform are using right now, we could it gets a

795
00:41:12.800 --> 00:41:14.760
little technical. We can unpack that for someone later. Why

796
00:41:14.920 --> 00:41:16.679
doing it through a platform like this is awesome, But

797
00:41:16.719 --> 00:41:18.800
it wasn't even here six months ago. I was looking

798
00:41:18.840 --> 00:41:24.320
for it. And covid has Yeah, Covid has spurred all this,

799
00:41:24.559 --> 00:41:30.280
all this innovation in podcasting that makes remote podcasting higher quality, easier,

800
00:41:30.320 --> 00:41:31.920
et cetera. I mean, you can go on, you can

801
00:41:31.960 --> 00:41:34.920
do Instagram live and those kind of things, and I

802
00:41:34.920 --> 00:41:37.480
think those things, but I still those although those things

803
00:41:37.480 --> 00:41:39.559
can be evergreen, I still think that they're very casual

804
00:41:39.599 --> 00:41:42.519
and they still are in that ephemeral category. When you

805
00:41:42.559 --> 00:41:44.519
really do a podcast and you've got the equipment and

806
00:41:44.519 --> 00:41:47.119
you've got the you kind of got the pre production.

807
00:41:47.840 --> 00:41:49.360
It's a little bit of a different thing, and there's

808
00:41:49.400 --> 00:41:52.480
so many cool platforms emerging now to make that easier.

809
00:41:52.519 --> 00:41:56.239
I've been really impressed with how the world is adapted

810
00:41:56.760 --> 00:41:57.079
and made.

811
00:41:57.320 --> 00:41:59.400
I don't want to miss here is you know, we

812
00:41:59.440 --> 00:42:02.039
have every channel in the world available to us, and

813
00:42:02.119 --> 00:42:06.719
doctors have so many choices. I can recall myself saying

814
00:42:06.719 --> 00:42:09.079
in a presentation at one point, pick the channel that

815
00:42:09.119 --> 00:42:13.239
you like the best. Do you like taking pictures? Use Instagram?

816
00:42:13.360 --> 00:42:15.880
Do you like tweeting? Do you like writing? Use Twitter?

817
00:42:16.760 --> 00:42:18.760
I've been saying the same thing. I just gave a

818
00:42:18.760 --> 00:42:20.280
talk where I said the same thing, except for what

819
00:42:20.320 --> 00:42:22.800
I say now is if you're if you like dancing,

820
00:42:22.920 --> 00:42:25.440
use TikTok. If you like writing, use Medium, which is

821
00:42:25.480 --> 00:42:28.159
you know the format start founded by this tempt. Some

822
00:42:28.159 --> 00:42:30.239
of the same people do it, I think so. But

823
00:42:30.320 --> 00:42:32.159
you know Medium was also founded by one of the

824
00:42:32.199 --> 00:42:34.480
co founders of Twitter, oddly enough so, and Twitter was

825
00:42:34.480 --> 00:42:36.159
supposed to be a blogging platform and then it turned

826
00:42:36.199 --> 00:42:38.079
into this short format thing. Medium is now the long

827
00:42:38.119 --> 00:42:40.519
format of that. But what I also say, clubhouse is

828
00:42:40.519 --> 00:42:41.920
a new one that's hit and I say, if you're

829
00:42:41.920 --> 00:42:45.039
into a kind of public speaking, try Clubhouse, although Jerry's

830
00:42:45.039 --> 00:42:45.519
out on do you.

831
00:42:45.559 --> 00:42:47.840
Have any kind of schedule that you live on you can.

832
00:42:48.039 --> 00:42:51.920
Clubhouse is very hard to get on board with because

833
00:42:52.199 --> 00:42:53.519
it all happens in the moment.

834
00:42:54.480 --> 00:42:56.280
I had to turn the notifications off. I loved it

835
00:42:56.320 --> 00:42:57.599
for a few weeks, and then it was just like

836
00:42:57.639 --> 00:43:00.400
this person's going loud, this person's, you know, start a child,

837
00:43:00.400 --> 00:43:01.760
this bran. I just went ill.

838
00:43:01.920 --> 00:43:04.800
And then the weird one is I can see my

839
00:43:04.800 --> 00:43:08.639
my kid's photographer going live almost every day and we

840
00:43:08.679 --> 00:43:11.119
had a photo shoot about three weeks ago, and I went,

841
00:43:12.320 --> 00:43:14.920
where are my photos? And you're on here all the

842
00:43:14.920 --> 00:43:17.719
time doing Clubhouse when you should be editing my photos.

843
00:43:17.760 --> 00:43:19.400
And I thought, oh, this is not going to be

844
00:43:19.440 --> 00:43:24.159
good for people who have oh oh in the service business,

845
00:43:24.440 --> 00:43:27.239
like if you're waiting on something from someone, and I thought,

846
00:43:27.679 --> 00:43:32.880
patients and listening to doctors, I don't know. There's lots

847
00:43:32.880 --> 00:43:35.519
of lots of ways that could go wrong. And what

848
00:43:35.559 --> 00:43:38.400
I want to point out about podcasting is why the

849
00:43:38.400 --> 00:43:43.119
format is so loved by me and why I think

850
00:43:43.159 --> 00:43:46.920
it's so great for doctors is we've been telling you

851
00:43:47.000 --> 00:43:51.360
for how many years, all of the years, all years.

852
00:43:52.039 --> 00:43:54.119
Video is so important. This is the year of video.

853
00:43:54.159 --> 00:43:56.079
You got to do video, you got to do videos.

854
00:43:56.119 --> 00:43:59.320
So none of us are really that good at doing

855
00:43:59.400 --> 00:44:04.400
stuff grappy or just turning on the camera and doing video.

856
00:44:04.599 --> 00:44:06.840
That's good for some people, that is not good for

857
00:44:06.960 --> 00:44:11.519
our customers. They are perfectionists. They want to look good

858
00:44:11.519 --> 00:44:14.320
on camera, they want to do it right, they want

859
00:44:14.360 --> 00:44:17.760
to be edited. So video ends up being more so

860
00:44:18.000 --> 00:44:23.400
much work. But podcasting, you know, we're using video now,

861
00:44:23.480 --> 00:44:29.360
but we don't care what we look like. Obviously, it's

862
00:44:29.400 --> 00:44:31.559
not about watching a video. It's about listening to what

863
00:44:31.559 --> 00:44:34.599
we're talking about. And when you apply that to the

864
00:44:35.280 --> 00:44:39.199
to the doctor sort of ability to get stuff created,

865
00:44:40.360 --> 00:44:43.679
it just is it's so good for them. They don't

866
00:44:43.719 --> 00:44:47.000
feel self conscious. Anything they say it can be edited

867
00:44:47.119 --> 00:44:53.119
right out. It's so forgiving, and it gets really at

868
00:44:53.119 --> 00:44:54.960
the heart of what the patient wants to hear from

869
00:44:55.039 --> 00:44:57.599
them when they're trying to make a decision, which is

870
00:44:57.639 --> 00:45:01.400
to know them. And so it strips away all that

871
00:45:01.440 --> 00:45:04.400
stuff that makes video difficult and just keeps the good part,

872
00:45:04.440 --> 00:45:06.480
which is what we were always trying to get to

873
00:45:06.599 --> 00:45:09.000
when we were pushing videos. So hard.

874
00:45:09.119 --> 00:45:16.239
So again again, really subtle but meaningful differences. That's really

875
00:45:16.280 --> 00:45:19.039
interesting insight because yeah, how like you said, all of

876
00:45:19.079 --> 00:45:21.960
the years video has been the thing like video, video, video,

877
00:45:22.000 --> 00:45:25.880
but the barrier to entry, the pre production, the perfectionism.

878
00:45:26.360 --> 00:45:30.519
I would have never put my finger on on how

879
00:45:30.639 --> 00:45:32.960
important those subtle differences are between these two formats and

880
00:45:33.039 --> 00:45:35.159
how it unlocks it the way that you did. But

881
00:45:35.400 --> 00:45:37.880
I now that you said it, I couldn't agree with

882
00:45:37.920 --> 00:45:38.239
you more.

883
00:45:38.719 --> 00:45:38.880
Oh.

884
00:45:39.079 --> 00:45:41.679
I know, I know you're busy, and I don't want

885
00:45:41.679 --> 00:45:44.400
to take up your whole day, but I one question

886
00:45:45.000 --> 00:45:46.320
or one topic I want to talk about this near

887
00:45:46.360 --> 00:45:49.719
and dear to me, because SEO is not the only

888
00:45:49.800 --> 00:45:51.800
channel that we acquire patients through that we help our

889
00:45:51.840 --> 00:45:54.320
clients do, but it's it's definitely a core specialty of

890
00:45:54.320 --> 00:45:57.639
ours and it's an important one. I want to talk

891
00:45:57.639 --> 00:46:01.320
about SEO and podcast. I have a lot I could

892
00:46:01.360 --> 00:46:04.039
say about it. I can't, but you actually said it

893
00:46:04.039 --> 00:46:05.280
to me when we were chatting a few weeks ago

894
00:46:05.320 --> 00:46:06.440
and you were telling me what you were doing. You

895
00:46:06.440 --> 00:46:08.480
were saying, there's kind of a whole SEO angle that

896
00:46:08.480 --> 00:46:12.480
you're looking at and that you're feeding into with what

897
00:46:12.519 --> 00:46:14.039
you're doing. I'd love for you to tell us about that,

898
00:46:14.079 --> 00:46:15.199
and then I have some more questions on.

899
00:46:15.280 --> 00:46:17.920
Yeah, well, once you're an SEO, you can never stop

900
00:46:18.039 --> 00:46:20.679
being an SEO, so of course everything I'm doing is

901
00:46:20.719 --> 00:46:25.800
coming from that foundation, right, So there's three big benefits,

902
00:46:25.840 --> 00:46:28.679
and I think what we should probably agree to do

903
00:46:28.760 --> 00:46:32.079
together is keep studying and measuring what's happening so that

904
00:46:32.119 --> 00:46:38.519
we really understand how podcasting is impacting SEO traditional SEO metrics.

905
00:46:39.159 --> 00:46:41.599
But what I know so far is the three big

906
00:46:41.599 --> 00:46:47.599
ones are the content links and reputation management or rankings,

907
00:46:48.320 --> 00:46:51.840
so and they're all related to each other, but you

908
00:46:51.840 --> 00:46:56.280
know you can't you can't separate them. So that the content,

909
00:46:56.320 --> 00:46:59.920
of course, is that every show has a transcript, and

910
00:47:00.119 --> 00:47:03.360
that natural language is then published with the show and

911
00:47:03.480 --> 00:47:06.119
can also be published on your website or anywhere else

912
00:47:06.119 --> 00:47:08.719
that you want to put it. The transcript gets indexed

913
00:47:08.760 --> 00:47:11.280
by Google, and now you have fresh content going every

914
00:47:11.280 --> 00:47:14.199
two weeks, kind of like does anyone remember me nagging

915
00:47:14.239 --> 00:47:16.559
them about writing blog posts every two weeks for the

916
00:47:16.599 --> 00:47:19.320
last fifteen years. I gave up at some point, but

917
00:47:20.280 --> 00:47:23.320
it's that idea, but now it's getting done in a

918
00:47:23.760 --> 00:47:27.079
more automated way. And then the second one is links,

919
00:47:27.119 --> 00:47:30.599
because now you've pushed a show out to all these

920
00:47:30.639 --> 00:47:35.440
different platforms Apple, Google, Amazon, Spotify, and then there's a

921
00:47:35.599 --> 00:47:40.920
whole layer of other podcasts, tools and players that also

922
00:47:41.039 --> 00:47:44.559
pull all that content in automatically and whether you want

923
00:47:44.559 --> 00:47:47.440
them to or not. And now you have all those

924
00:47:47.480 --> 00:47:49.840
links back to your website out there in these really

925
00:47:50.480 --> 00:47:55.000
high trust authoritative channels. And they're high trust because how

926
00:47:55.039 --> 00:47:58.480
do you spam a podcast? How do you create a

927
00:47:58.519 --> 00:48:01.159
spam podcast that doesn't exist?

928
00:48:02.239 --> 00:48:06.679
Great excellent one, I think in all SEO looking at

929
00:48:06.719 --> 00:48:09.159
content where there's a higher barrier to entry, that spammers

930
00:48:09.159 --> 00:48:12.199
are not going to really be able to easily just

931
00:48:12.239 --> 00:48:17.000
climb over that wall. That's often a very good yardstick

932
00:48:17.079 --> 00:48:22.360
or way to find a new SEO tactics or defensive

933
00:48:22.519 --> 00:48:25.280
SEO tactics. So I didn't even think that's a great point.

934
00:48:25.599 --> 00:48:27.280
There's probably a bunch of them out there trying to

935
00:48:27.280 --> 00:48:29.920
figure out how to do it right now, and I'm

936
00:48:30.000 --> 00:48:33.559
sure someone will get there eventually, but it's it's going

937
00:48:33.599 --> 00:48:37.639
to be a while before that happens, and maybe never,

938
00:48:37.840 --> 00:48:41.199
maybe we'll just stay I hope you can't hear my

939
00:48:41.320 --> 00:48:43.280
calendar thing going off. I thought, I tried not I.

940
00:48:43.280 --> 00:48:45.400
Don't hear anything. No, I don't think. I don't think

941
00:48:45.440 --> 00:48:47.039
it ever will occur. And that's one thing about podcast

942
00:48:47.159 --> 00:48:50.159
is anytime people try to automate it, it authenticity goes

943
00:48:50.199 --> 00:48:53.679
away and it just doesn't work. One of the things

944
00:48:53.400 --> 00:48:56.880
that like the I think there's statistics and at least anecdotally,

945
00:48:56.920 --> 00:48:58.880
I know that when the host reads any kind of

946
00:48:58.920 --> 00:49:01.880
sponsor messages, it's really effective anytime they do it as

947
00:49:01.920 --> 00:49:05.480
a pre recorded thing in podcasts. For those podcasts that

948
00:49:05.519 --> 00:49:07.760
are monetizing in that way, I think, you know, the

949
00:49:07.800 --> 00:49:10.559
goal of everything you're doing is not for it is

950
00:49:10.599 --> 00:49:13.599
really not that they're going to monetize or draw value

951
00:49:13.599 --> 00:49:16.199
out of in a different way. But authenticity, you know,

952
00:49:16.320 --> 00:49:20.079
really wins in podcasts, and so I don't see that happening.

953
00:49:20.840 --> 00:49:25.480
The third, the really big problem that I've been focused

954
00:49:25.480 --> 00:49:29.679
on is this reputation management situation, and in one case,

955
00:49:29.719 --> 00:49:31.719
have been trying to push something off page one that

956
00:49:31.840 --> 00:49:36.199
needs to be less visible. And so we're really watching

957
00:49:36.239 --> 00:49:39.639
closely to see how long it takes for podcast content

958
00:49:39.880 --> 00:49:44.760
to impact that situation. Because everyone knows when you have

959
00:49:44.840 --> 00:49:47.840
something on page one that you don't want people to

960
00:49:47.880 --> 00:49:51.320
read that. It has an immediate and a pretty noticeable

961
00:49:51.360 --> 00:49:56.599
impact on inbound leads. So there's also an aspect of

962
00:49:56.639 --> 00:50:00.559
the creating more speech to drown out bad speech happening

963
00:50:00.880 --> 00:50:04.199
with this content too. So it's a good point crossing

964
00:50:04.239 --> 00:50:06.599
my fingers every day that that will happen quickly.

965
00:50:07.239 --> 00:50:09.639
Yeah, well, I like you said, we should, we should

966
00:50:09.639 --> 00:50:12.679
commit to, you know, staying in touch in terms of measuring,

967
00:50:12.760 --> 00:50:15.400
and I'm really interested to hear what you see and

968
00:50:15.719 --> 00:50:18.360
to help draw draw insights out of what you're doing.

969
00:50:18.599 --> 00:50:20.599
Two aspects of the SEO thing that are interesting to me.

970
00:50:20.800 --> 00:50:24.280
One the show that you sent me that was specifical

971
00:50:24.320 --> 00:50:27.480
on a specific topics. It was a plus sized tummy tucks,

972
00:50:27.480 --> 00:50:31.599
which is you know, it's niche, it's specific, it's not

973
00:50:31.840 --> 00:50:34.960
a vague keyword. It's it's almost long tail, you would say.

974
00:50:35.519 --> 00:50:39.840
And just like any content, you have to reverse Just

975
00:50:39.840 --> 00:50:42.159
like any content SEO, you sort of reverse engineer what's

976
00:50:42.199 --> 00:50:44.840
the search demand? How do I create the content for that?

977
00:50:44.920 --> 00:50:46.800
So you could podcast and just sort of talk about

978
00:50:46.800 --> 00:50:48.519
a bunch of things, but if you're deliberate about it,

979
00:50:48.800 --> 00:50:50.960
I'm really interested to see what we can do and

980
00:50:51.039 --> 00:50:53.760
with your content in terms of driving discovery of people

981
00:50:53.800 --> 00:50:56.320
who don't know that doctor. They're not being sent in

982
00:50:56.400 --> 00:50:58.599
after they've already booked a consult and the front desk

983
00:50:58.639 --> 00:50:59.960
is saying, hey, listen to this before you come in,

984
00:51:00.159 --> 00:51:02.039
which is a great utilization of it. But also I'm

985
00:51:02.079 --> 00:51:05.280
really interested to see, if you know, the topic of

986
00:51:05.320 --> 00:51:07.280
the show is right there in the title, it's plus

987
00:51:07.280 --> 00:51:09.679
sized tummy tucks. Let's let's see what we can drive

988
00:51:09.679 --> 00:51:13.920
in terms of people who are just searching that discovery

989
00:51:14.000 --> 00:51:16.760
keyword i'll call it. And you see Google through the

990
00:51:16.880 --> 00:51:20.719
RSS feed is pulling in podcasts now into search results.

991
00:51:21.679 --> 00:51:23.440
So the other thing I'm interested to see if they

992
00:51:23.480 --> 00:51:26.599
start doing, which ties into this discovery thing i'm talking about,

993
00:51:27.719 --> 00:51:29.480
is they said some time ago that they would that

994
00:51:29.559 --> 00:51:34.719
audio would be indexible and searchable. And you see it already.

995
00:51:34.719 --> 00:51:39.159
You brought it up to me earlier. YouTube videos are

996
00:51:39.199 --> 00:51:43.639
automatically subtitled. The AI is pretty darn good. It's not

997
00:51:43.800 --> 00:51:45.760
crazy to think that they're already going to be doing

998
00:51:45.760 --> 00:51:47.719
that or very soon be doing that. With podcasts. There

999
00:51:47.760 --> 00:51:50.840
are a couple other platforms that make that exist out there.

1000
00:51:51.039 --> 00:51:52.559
I'm drawing a blank on the name right now. That

1001
00:51:52.639 --> 00:51:57.559
make clips within podcasts discoverable. And you see a similar

1002
00:51:57.639 --> 00:51:59.840
thing on YouTube where there are certain clips and some

1003
00:52:00.039 --> 00:52:03.519
times these are done automatically. Sometimes the creator has to

1004
00:52:04.519 --> 00:52:08.039
bookmark those different spots. But that's the world I see coming,

1005
00:52:08.400 --> 00:52:12.000
which is really interesting to me with podcasting and if

1006
00:52:12.360 --> 00:52:14.760
someone like yourself is just getting it, you go back

1007
00:52:14.760 --> 00:52:17.199
to that example of blogging. I've talked about this with

1008
00:52:17.239 --> 00:52:20.920
doctors too. You just give up and it's no. You

1009
00:52:20.920 --> 00:52:23.760
know again, they're busy. It's not their fault. But if

1010
00:52:23.760 --> 00:52:25.519
you can tee it up and they can sit down,

1011
00:52:25.719 --> 00:52:28.400
so many of them, any subject matter expert, you sit

1012
00:52:28.440 --> 00:52:29.760
them in front of a mic, they can just go

1013
00:52:30.079 --> 00:52:32.199
and you just sort of frame the conversation and tee

1014
00:52:32.239 --> 00:52:34.119
it up. So to be able to convert that into

1015
00:52:34.199 --> 00:52:38.239
content that is discoverable and might drive new eyes and ears.

1016
00:52:39.159 --> 00:52:43.039
I'm just I'm just extremely obsessed with seeing I'm fascinated

1017
00:52:43.039 --> 00:52:44.000
with seeing where this goes.

1018
00:52:45.599 --> 00:52:49.519
Yeah. I thought I thought I was being a little

1019
00:52:49.519 --> 00:52:53.079
bit crazy, but you're making me feel like I am

1020
00:52:53.159 --> 00:52:55.639
on the right track. Because one of the things that

1021
00:52:56.039 --> 00:52:59.559
I'll just be super transparent and vulnerable here is when

1022
00:52:59.599 --> 00:53:04.519
I know so noticed there were really only ten. I thought, well,

1023
00:53:05.119 --> 00:53:07.920
why are there only ten? Is that because it doesn't work?

1024
00:53:08.880 --> 00:53:11.320
And I just sort of had to throw myself out there.

1025
00:53:11.559 --> 00:53:14.960
And I kind of looked back at my career and said, well,

1026
00:53:16.079 --> 00:53:18.800
no one had a website either when I started, and

1027
00:53:18.840 --> 00:53:21.760
I didn't have any problem convincing people that they needed

1028
00:53:21.760 --> 00:53:25.000
a website. No one was on a directory. I mean,

1029
00:53:25.000 --> 00:53:27.039
I built one of the first directories that there ever

1030
00:53:27.280 --> 00:53:32.079
was in two thousand and three. All this stuff came

1031
00:53:32.119 --> 00:53:35.480
along and I watched it all come along, and if

1032
00:53:35.519 --> 00:53:39.599
anyone in our space, I just kind of thought about

1033
00:53:39.639 --> 00:53:43.239
everybody that we know, you know you and I just

1034
00:53:43.800 --> 00:53:45.920
met a few months ago. But I've worked with every

1035
00:53:45.920 --> 00:53:48.920
web company in the space, and I have great relationships

1036
00:53:48.960 --> 00:53:52.920
and deep respect for everybody doing this work. Who is

1037
00:53:52.960 --> 00:53:58.880
going to add podcasts to the mix without having to

1038
00:53:58.960 --> 00:54:02.239
put a huge investment into it. And so it's my

1039
00:54:02.440 --> 00:54:05.920
hope that whatever work I'm doing is supportive to everyone

1040
00:54:06.000 --> 00:54:09.840
else and not competitive. And I'm not worried about anybody

1041
00:54:09.840 --> 00:54:14.119
else coming along and doing it either, because there's so

1042
00:54:14.800 --> 00:54:18.039
much work to be done. There's more than I could

1043
00:54:18.079 --> 00:54:19.679
ever possibly do by myself.

1044
00:54:20.039 --> 00:54:24.280
Don't you love that when you know that. Like again,

1045
00:54:24.320 --> 00:54:26.159
it goes back to that spamming. There's no spamming it.

1046
00:54:26.199 --> 00:54:28.480
So someone can come along and you know they're going

1047
00:54:28.519 --> 00:54:29.800
to have so much bandwidth. You're going to have so

1048
00:54:29.920 --> 00:54:31.960
much bandwid If two people, three people, ten people are

1049
00:54:32.000 --> 00:54:34.280
doing quality work, great, and everyone else who's not willing

1050
00:54:34.320 --> 00:54:35.880
to do quality work, they're never going to be able

1051
00:54:35.920 --> 00:54:37.320
to break into it. It's just not going to happen.

1052
00:54:37.360 --> 00:54:39.639
And let's do it together and help each other. So

1053
00:54:39.719 --> 00:54:42.320
I want to give credit to the plus sized Timmy

1054
00:54:42.320 --> 00:54:45.519
tech thing makes me remember that that's actually our friend

1055
00:54:45.519 --> 00:54:47.559
cage More who came up with that, and he saw

1056
00:54:47.599 --> 00:54:49.840
it somewhere else that it was working, and he brought

1057
00:54:49.880 --> 00:54:53.400
it to this account and it's been very successful, so

1058
00:54:53.559 --> 00:54:56.400
much so that he said, we have to figure out

1059
00:54:56.440 --> 00:54:59.920
how to get less of these. That's when you know

1060
00:55:00.199 --> 00:55:03.239
you did it. This has happened, I think twice in

1061
00:55:03.280 --> 00:55:05.480
my life this has happened. I had another account that

1062
00:55:05.559 --> 00:55:09.920
said stop the lip injection leads because I had written

1063
00:55:09.920 --> 00:55:12.880
something that made people really want to go there. This

1064
00:55:12.960 --> 00:55:16.320
is actually one of my great case studies from history

1065
00:55:16.480 --> 00:55:19.480
was I realized that people weren't searching for Jupiter. They

1066
00:55:19.519 --> 00:55:22.519
were searching for lip injections. So I stuck a lip

1067
00:55:22.559 --> 00:55:26.119
injections page on a client's website and like two weeks

1068
00:55:26.159 --> 00:55:27.840
later she said, make it stop.

1069
00:55:29.199 --> 00:55:33.639
Oh well something, I love those stories when you tap

1070
00:55:33.679 --> 00:55:36.280
into it and shout out to Cage. He's actually an

1071
00:55:36.280 --> 00:55:39.480
old and very dear friend. And that's that's awesome. He

1072
00:55:39.599 --> 00:55:42.639
deserves credit for that, because you know, there's nothing cooler

1073
00:55:42.679 --> 00:55:45.239
than as a marketer when you just tap into when

1074
00:55:45.280 --> 00:55:49.599
you connect the demand and the supply and in the

1075
00:55:49.679 --> 00:55:53.000
right way. In an Internet marketing, it's all about finding

1076
00:55:53.599 --> 00:55:56.480
the way. It's the semantics of it, it's the context

1077
00:55:56.480 --> 00:55:58.159
of that people are thinking about. And there are also

1078
00:55:58.519 --> 00:56:00.960
these little niche, lower hanging fruit things that are not

1079
00:56:01.039 --> 00:56:05.960
glutted that other people are not, you know, saturating. And

1080
00:56:06.199 --> 00:56:07.679
when you find that and not a lot of other

1081
00:56:07.719 --> 00:56:10.599
people have figured out that that's a term or an

1082
00:56:10.800 --> 00:56:14.440
exact phrase the way the consumer thinks about it, it

1083
00:56:14.559 --> 00:56:17.239
just unlocks something that's super cool. So that's awesome.

1084
00:56:17.880 --> 00:56:21.440
It's been great, and he's helped a ton of patients

1085
00:56:21.480 --> 00:56:24.519
with it, so for him, it's been a really great

1086
00:56:24.559 --> 00:56:28.679
experience to have gone through that, and it doesn't happen

1087
00:56:28.760 --> 00:56:32.360
very often. But when you have people like your team

1088
00:56:32.440 --> 00:56:35.079
and lots of other folks that I know who are

1089
00:56:35.119 --> 00:56:37.599
really watching the data, that's when those things happen. And

1090
00:56:37.599 --> 00:56:39.400
that's why it's important to work with people who have

1091
00:56:39.480 --> 00:56:43.400
experience in our space and not just anyone who can

1092
00:56:44.320 --> 00:56:46.519
claim to do SEO or build a website.

1093
00:56:47.079 --> 00:56:49.480
Yeah, I think industry knowledge. At this point in marketing,

1094
00:56:49.519 --> 00:56:53.159
it was okay you could apply these new technologies of

1095
00:56:53.199 --> 00:56:56.599
digital marketing a little bit horizontally early on across industries,

1096
00:56:56.920 --> 00:56:58.320
and now today it goes back to what I was

1097
00:56:58.320 --> 00:57:02.280
saying earlier about you know, it's just more detailed, more

1098
00:57:02.360 --> 00:57:04.599
nuanced now. So I think you have to be interestry focused.

1099
00:57:04.599 --> 00:57:07.519
I think industry knowledge is the only differentiator you can

1100
00:57:07.599 --> 00:57:12.079
really have. I feel like I'm I'm running out of

1101
00:57:12.079 --> 00:57:13.639
time with you, But there was something you told me

1102
00:57:13.639 --> 00:57:15.440
that sort of an offshoot of this podcast thing you're doing,

1103
00:57:15.440 --> 00:57:17.880
which is your own show. It was the before and

1104
00:57:17.880 --> 00:57:19.599
after stories. I really want you to tell us about that,

1105
00:57:19.599 --> 00:57:20.519
because I think it's so cool.

1106
00:57:21.000 --> 00:57:26.320
Sure, I figured out what kind of when I got

1107
00:57:26.360 --> 00:57:31.559
started that if I didn't do something to be creative myself,

1108
00:57:31.760 --> 00:57:35.119
that I was, what would the point of being on

1109
00:57:35.199 --> 00:57:39.280
my own be if I wasn't doing something amazing. And

1110
00:57:39.320 --> 00:57:41.159
I knew really quickly that that was going to be

1111
00:57:41.320 --> 00:57:44.480
patient facing show. And there's someone I've been working with

1112
00:57:44.519 --> 00:57:48.119
my whole career who I call the patient whisper, and

1113
00:57:49.079 --> 00:57:51.920
between the two of us, you know, we just I

1114
00:57:51.960 --> 00:57:55.960
had this. I had this weirdly. It was like a

1115
00:57:56.039 --> 00:57:58.679
domain name that I bought a million years ago and

1116
00:57:58.719 --> 00:57:59.960
didn't know what I was going to use it for.

1117
00:58:01.280 --> 00:58:04.320
And then this is what I decided to do with it.

1118
00:58:04.360 --> 00:58:09.119
And so it's called Before and After Stories. And I

1119
00:58:09.199 --> 00:58:11.280
did an experiment on a friend who was having a

1120
00:58:11.320 --> 00:58:15.719
septoplasty to see if it would be interesting, and it's

1121
00:58:16.079 --> 00:58:22.719
so good. It's turning out so well. It's interesting, it's funny,

1122
00:58:22.960 --> 00:58:25.599
it's a little bit sad. You get right inside what

1123
00:58:25.679 --> 00:58:28.559
they're going through. And so in his case, I got

1124
00:58:28.639 --> 00:58:32.960
him a week before surgery, a day after surgery, and

1125
00:58:32.960 --> 00:58:36.840
then I got his doctor on the third episode. And

1126
00:58:36.880 --> 00:58:39.199
then now that it's been about three months, I'll go

1127
00:58:39.280 --> 00:58:42.239
back and talk to him now that he's pretty much

1128
00:58:42.280 --> 00:58:45.079
fully recovered with a nose. You it takes a long time,

1129
00:58:45.199 --> 00:58:49.960
but that's gonna launch. I'm just waiting on art at

1130
00:58:49.960 --> 00:58:52.280
this point, so it'll launch really soon in the next

1131
00:58:52.320 --> 00:58:56.679
couple of weeks. And the name of my company is

1132
00:58:56.679 --> 00:59:01.119
actually the Axis Axis, which is an easter egg of

1133
00:59:01.199 --> 00:59:05.320
a name because I had a friend who nicknamed me

1134
00:59:05.360 --> 00:59:08.599
the Access of Eva like twenty years ago, so that

1135
00:59:09.880 --> 00:59:11.920
it's a little bit of a like, why did you

1136
00:59:12.000 --> 00:59:14.079
name it that kind of name, But I just wanted

1137
00:59:14.079 --> 00:59:16.079
to get that out there and say that's why. And

1138
00:59:16.119 --> 00:59:18.599
it's because I'm connecting all the stuff I've ever done

1139
00:59:18.639 --> 00:59:20.719
and all the people I've ever worked with into this

1140
00:59:21.519 --> 00:59:26.159
one little thing, and I'm really enjoying it and I'm

1141
00:59:26.239 --> 00:59:28.119
having a great time doing it because I can see

1142
00:59:28.119 --> 00:59:31.719
it having a very positive impact already right out of

1143
00:59:31.719 --> 00:59:34.840
the gate, and I may have that time with my

1144
00:59:34.920 --> 00:59:39.800
little kids and the space and the freedom to do

1145
00:59:40.039 --> 00:59:41.840
the things that I want to do. And it's been

1146
00:59:42.119 --> 00:59:44.360
it's been awesome. And I got to meet you guys,

1147
00:59:44.440 --> 00:59:50.559
which wouldn't have happened probably yeah, maybe eventually, but not no,

1148
00:59:50.840 --> 00:59:51.519
not this way.

1149
00:59:51.880 --> 00:59:54.280
I'm so glad we did. And it's awesome. Congratulations on

1150
00:59:54.760 --> 00:59:57.519
starting your new endeavor. It's a it's a big undertaking,

1151
00:59:58.199 --> 01:00:00.960
and it sounds like it's going great and I'm very

1152
01:00:01.000 --> 01:00:04.360
happy for you, and I totally see that even more

1153
01:00:04.360 --> 01:00:06.840
so after this conversation is just connecting so many things.

1154
01:00:06.880 --> 01:00:09.239
So the access of the I love that. So speaking

1155
01:00:09.239 --> 01:00:14.239
of that, you're still also doing consulting somewhat as well, right, Yeah,

1156
01:00:14.280 --> 01:00:17.000
And so if someone has interest in either either practice

1157
01:00:17.039 --> 01:00:20.440
consulting or this podcast, so where do they find you?

1158
01:00:20.519 --> 01:00:21.599
What should they where should they go?

1159
01:00:22.360 --> 01:00:27.519
Well, in true marketing company form, you know, my own

1160
01:00:27.679 --> 01:00:32.480
stuff is not built yet. I have a designer that

1161
01:00:32.559 --> 01:00:36.840
I worked with at real self who's just from another planet.

1162
01:00:36.920 --> 01:00:42.719
He's just incredible. He's been working on my company identity

1163
01:00:42.760 --> 01:00:47.320
and that's almost done. So everything's moving along. And I

1164
01:00:47.400 --> 01:00:50.400
just inherently focus on my clients more than myself. So

1165
01:00:50.480 --> 01:00:52.679
their stuff's all getting done and mine gets done when

1166
01:00:52.719 --> 01:00:55.400
it gets done, which is a long way around to say,

1167
01:00:55.480 --> 01:00:57.599
just right right now, it's best to find me on

1168
01:00:57.639 --> 01:01:01.760
LinkedIn and send me a message there. If you happen

1169
01:01:01.840 --> 01:01:04.320
to go to the access dot io, which is my

1170
01:01:05.400 --> 01:01:09.159
eventual domain name, it points to my LinkedIn profile and

1171
01:01:09.320 --> 01:01:13.639
eventually will point to the website that I will eventually build.

1172
01:01:15.360 --> 01:01:17.159
Yeah, okay, I did. I went there and I saw that,

1173
01:01:17.519 --> 01:01:20.480
and so so they can just yeah, I did. I

1174
01:01:20.519 --> 01:01:22.239
saw a couple weeks ago. So all right, so look

1175
01:01:22.280 --> 01:01:26.000
you up on LinkedIn, and definitely I want to keep

1176
01:01:26.039 --> 01:01:27.599
in touch and maybe even have you ask if you

1177
01:01:27.599 --> 01:01:29.519
want to come back on the show sometime and talk

1178
01:01:29.559 --> 01:01:32.000
about kind of how this is developing. I'm super intrigued

1179
01:01:32.039 --> 01:01:34.639
to hear what you measure, what you discover, what you

1180
01:01:34.719 --> 01:01:37.360
learn about your thesis here of podcasting. But I'm right

1181
01:01:37.400 --> 01:01:40.199
on board with you. I think you're even a little early.

1182
01:01:40.239 --> 01:01:41.840
Like you said, you wonder if you're feeling crazy. I

1183
01:01:41.840 --> 01:01:44.480
think if you're early, you feel a little crazy. And

1184
01:01:44.519 --> 01:01:46.920
it's weird to feel early to something that feels so late.

1185
01:01:47.119 --> 01:01:50.559
But I'm noticing, no, right, I'm noticing that these days,

1186
01:01:50.559 --> 01:01:53.440
even the Internet is early, and we think it's you know,

1187
01:01:53.480 --> 01:01:55.079
I think we'll look back in a long time and

1188
01:01:55.159 --> 01:01:57.039
realize we were in the early ballgame. Honest.

1189
01:01:57.079 --> 01:01:59.320
It's actually a really good point because when we started

1190
01:01:59.320 --> 01:02:02.079
the Real Selfie and Diversity podcasts, I thought, oh, we're

1191
01:02:02.159 --> 01:02:04.039
just going to look like a bunch of copycats, and

1192
01:02:04.719 --> 01:02:09.239
but there's nobody doing a lot of I mean, there's

1193
01:02:09.239 --> 01:02:12.519
not a lot of podcasting in our space, and there's

1194
01:02:12.559 --> 01:02:15.679
no reason that there shouldn't be. There should be tons,

1195
01:02:15.880 --> 01:02:18.519
and I think people are going to come to expect

1196
01:02:18.519 --> 01:02:22.760
it at some point. So not usually an early adopter,

1197
01:02:22.880 --> 01:02:24.400
but in this case, we're gonna have to call it

1198
01:02:24.440 --> 01:02:27.840
something else because it's old. It's as old as old

1199
01:02:27.880 --> 01:02:29.679
can be, but it's somehow new.

1200
01:02:30.840 --> 01:02:32.960
Yeah, it's just sort of adopting it in a new

1201
01:02:33.039 --> 01:02:35.639
use case with a different objective and a different spin. Yeah,

1202
01:02:35.679 --> 01:02:37.320
we'll come up with a word for it. I love

1203
01:02:37.360 --> 01:02:41.440
doing that, okay, But either way, this has been a

1204
01:02:41.440 --> 01:02:43.639
fascinating conversation. I know, I know you have things you

1205
01:02:43.679 --> 01:02:45.880
have to get off too, So thank you so much

1206
01:02:45.920 --> 01:02:48.679
for giving me a big chunk of your time and I

1207
01:02:48.760 --> 01:02:52.159
enjoyed this conversation. Let's do it again too, Okay, Thanks,

1208
01:02:52.519 --> 01:02:54.559
thank you, Thank you everyone. We'll see you next time

1209
01:02:54.599 --> 01:02:55.840
on the podcast. Thanks so much.

1210
01:03:02.760 --> 01:03:06.280
Thanks for listening to Patient Obsessed. From inquiry to appointment

1211
01:03:06.320 --> 01:03:09.679
and appointment to surgery, the obsession has always been and

1212
01:03:09.760 --> 01:03:13.679
always will be conversions. For more resources and middle of

1213
01:03:13.719 --> 01:03:18.280
funnel marketing advice, go to Patientobsessed podcast dot com. If

1214
01:03:18.280 --> 01:03:22.360
you're doing something innovative to improve or disrupt the patient experience,

1215
01:03:22.559 --> 01:03:25.440
we want to hear from you. If you're a doctor

1216
01:03:25.559 --> 01:03:28.199
or an aesthetic professional and have ever thought about doing

1217
01:03:28.239 --> 01:03:31.760
your own podcast, you can try podcasting for free on

1218
01:03:31.800 --> 01:03:35.559
our Meet the Doctor podcast. Schedule your free recording session

1219
01:03:35.599 --> 01:03:39.239
at meetthdoctorpodcast dot com and listen to Meet the Doctor

1220
01:03:39.280 --> 01:03:43.480
on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or anywhere you listen to podcasts.

1221
01:03:44.039 --> 01:03:48.199
I'm Evashey, your host and executive producer. Production support comes

1222
01:03:48.199 --> 01:03:51.760
from Mary Ellen Clarkson and Hannah Burkhart. Our engineer is

1223
01:03:51.840 --> 01:03:56.159
Daniel Cruiser. Patient Obsessed is a production of the Access

1224
01:03:56.320 --> 01:03:59.559
t h e a xis dot Io.

1225
01:04:06.639 --> 01:04:06.679
He